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Hydroxycut Hardcore Next Gen Non-Stimulant Reviews

By: MuscleTech



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Weight Loss > Stimulant Free
ABOUT
Hydroxycut Hardcore Next Gen Non-Stimulant is a Stimulant Free Weight Loss Product manufactured by MuscleTech. It can increase metabolic rate and fat loss without the use/inclusion of traditional stimulants.
PRODUCT RATING
7.1
(Out of 10, after 1 review)
1

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REVIEWS

Overall
Overall
4.0
Effectiveness
Effectiveness
4.0
Value
Value
2.0
  March 5, 2018

 Pros:
 Cons:
    • Not Effective
    • Too Expensive
    • Class-action Lawsuits Against Brand

    Introduction

    Hello all. Full intro about myself can be found here in the forum: https://supplementreviews.com/forum/index.php?topic=35432.0

    Typically I wouldn't bother with any product from Muscletech's Hydroxycut line because of past experiences with non-effective supplements and questionable ingredient formulas. Plus I know that Muscletech has been involved in class action lawsuits specifically for Hydroxycut products because of false and/or misleading claims. For this product, I happened to get a free bottle with my order from BB.com during the holiday season. I did not expect this in my shipment and don't know if it was supposed to be in there or if BB.com was just trying to get rid of some inventory. Either way, I finished the bottle and below is my review and experiences.

    Ingredient Profile

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin B6 (As Pyridoxine HCI) 2 mg 100%
    Vitamin B12 (As Methylcobalamin) 6 mcg 100%

    Robusta Coffee Blend (consisting of standardized Robusta coffee bean extract [as C. canephora robusta] Standardized for 45% chlorogenic acids and Robusta Coffee bean extract [as C. canephora robusta]) 400 mg
    Black Ginger (As Kaempferia Parviflora) (root) 100 mg
    Schizandra (As Schisandra Chinensis) (fruit) 75 mg
    Black Currant Extract (As Ribes Nigrum) (fruit) 50 mg
    Ophiopogon extract (As Ophiopogon japonicus) (root) Supplying polysaccharides 25 mg
    Amla Extract (As Phyllanthus emblica)(fruit) 20 mg

    Other Ingredients:
    Microcrystalline Cellulose, Capsule (Gelatin, Titanium Dioxide, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Blue No. 1), Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide.

    What I find interesting about the ingredients for this product is on Musctech's website, I could not find any explanation about what effects these ingredients should have on the body in regards to weight loss. They state "Exclusive, one-of-a-kind ingredients combinations" yet no reasoning about why or how.

    The Black Ginger ingredient is a herb that has some historical and medicinal usage for treating metabolic ailments and improving vitality in Thailand and limited to surrounding regions. It is also reported to be an aphrodisiac compound and physical enhancer. Human trials are just starting and at least one study has noted that it can increase functionality and cardiovascular performance in otherwise healthy persons over 60, but an acute study in youth failed to find any performance enhancing effects.

    The Schizandra ingredient has been used traditionally as performance enhancers and as an adaptogen. Lots of human evidence from many decades ago in Russia that cannot be accessed, and limited Western evidence. Appears to also reduce anxiety and cortisol, with a tart taste. Clinical trials done in the West are lacking or confounded; so no optimal dose is known.

    The Black Currant Extract does not have much information on Examine.com and WebMD states it has been used to make medicine. Also Black currant dried leaf is used for arthritis, gout, joint pain (rheumatism), diarrhea, colic, hepatitis and other liver ailments, convulsions, and disorders that cause swelling (inflammation) of the mouth and throat. Black currant dried leaf is also used for treating coughs, colds, and whooping cough; disinfecting the urine; promoting urine flow; treating bladder stones, and as a cleansing tea. I could not easily find any information that shows its effectiveness in terms of weight loss. There was a short blurb about this possibly being able to reduce muscle fatigue.

    The Ophiopogon extract (As Ophiopogon japonicus) according to Examine.com in a study done on pregnant rats when this ingredient was taken orally for two weeks is able to attenuate changes in blood glucose and insulin thought to be secondary to attenuating the suppression of adiponectin synthesis in adipose tissue.

    Amla is a herb from Indian medicine (Ayurveda) that has traditionally been used for the purposes of enhancing general vitality and cognition as well as promoting longevity; a goal similar to adaptogen compounds (although an adaptogenic effect has not clearly been demonstrated with Amla). It appears to be most used for regulating glucose metabolism and cardiac health.

    Basically they promote this entire product based on a study including the ingredient C. canephora robusta claiming "Subjects taking 200mg of C. canephora robusta standardized to 45% chlorogenic acids, found in HYDROXYCUT HARDCORE NEXT GEN NON-STIMULANT, lost 10.95 lbs. in 60 days with a low-calorie diet, and 3.7 lbs. in 8 weeks with a calorie-reduced diet and moderate exercise." That study was comprised of 50 people from 19-75 years old, both sexes who were overweight with a BMI of 25 or greater. 30 received active treatment and 20 placebo treatment.

    For the other "active" ingredients that this product contains, each one is listed on the Muscletech website but only includes information about the ingredient's origin. No specific details about why it is in this product and what the intended benefits of the ingredient are.

    Taste/Mixability/Dosing

    Taste >> Product is in pill form. Nothing to taste.

    Mixability >> As with taste, nothing to report here.

    Dosing >> Per the label, Take 1 serving (3 capsules) twice daily, 30 to 60 minutes before your two largest meals. Do not exceed 6 capsules in a 24-hour period. Avoid snacking and drink 10 glasses of water each day. For best results, use for 60 days in combination with diet and training.

    Effectiveness

    When using this product, I decided to stop taking all other weight/fat loss products that I was using and only consuming stimulants from pre-workout powders. I was in a slow and steady weight loss phase where I was aiming to lose one to two pounds per week from being in a slight calorie deficit along with my normal weight lifting and cardio routine.

    Sadly, but not surprisingly, this section is going to be rather short. As I expected with this and for that matter any Hydroxycut product, there was no effectiveness that I can report. I know this product is non-stimulant so I wasn't expecting to feel any buzz or increased body heat from consuming this product. For the duration of the bottle, I was able to lose the one to two pounds per week that I was aiming for. Based on past experiences using this method, I was expecting to lose a little more with the help of this supplement or maybe some changes in body composition. Neither one of those effects happened for me. After reading the study and seeing all the subjects were BMI 25 or more, maybe this product isn't intended for a person that does not have a high BMI. Just something to keep in mind if considering this product.

    After reading the label some more, I did find some interesting information in the small print. When reading further into the directions for consuming this product, it includes the information to "avoid snacking and drink 10 glasses of water each day." Makes me wonder why they would need to include that information on the label of this product as I have never seen another supplement include information that specific. Of course to help lose weight a person should avoid snacking and drink more water. Anyone involved in fitness knows those are a couple of the cardinal rules for losing weight effectively. Eat less, drink more water and exercise...DUH!

    Value

    You can find a 10 serving (30 capsule) sample bottle for about $10 on the internet. This product also comes in a 50 serving (150 capsule) bottle that retails in the $25 range. Currently, BB.com has a B1G1 free deal on their website. In terms of value, there is none for me because the product did not work. If it works for you, the B1G1 deal is a great value.

    Side Effects

    Besides the product not working, I did not experience any side effects. Please note that the capsules do contain artificial colors if you are allergic and/or trying to avoid those.

    Conclusion

    In conclusion, I am glad that I got this bottle for free because otherwise I might as well have flushed my money down the toilet. It's a shiny label with lots of flash and high flying claims but empty on results and science other than one research study. This product is a perfect example of why Muscletech has been sued for selling these Hydroxycut supplements. As I stated in the beginning, I typically don't bother with any products from the Hydroxycut line and this one just hammered home my point. At no price would I purchase this item or recommend it to anyone who I like. If you have screwed me over and I want to indirectly cause you to waste your money, then I would recommend this product to you...LOL

    Thank you for reading my review and let me know if you have any questions


    COMMENTS (42)


    • Wis3guy
      Rep: +3,098
      March 2, 2018

      Good review dmf8625, I think most of us have had a "muscle tech" moment or two.....



    • Clipper83
      Rep: +4,424
      March 2, 2018

      Some of their new products look alright actually. Good to see Hydroxycut get reviewed!



    • mhseaver670
      Rep: +6,692
      March 2, 2018

      The profile does seem to bad. But I have to say they are the masters of bs marketing.



    • Darkman
      Rep: +1,042
      March 2, 2018

      Great review! I stayed away from Muscle Tech long ago because of their ridiculous 6 page "editorial" ads that you found in every muscle magazine.



    • March 2, 2018

      NIce review. Muscle Tech are very savvy when it comes to flashy design and intriguing marketing, but scientific content is another thing, just look at Clear Muscle. I tried their pwo Vapor X5 Next Gen and it had some minor qualities to it, but overall meh. Their Nitro Tech bars are nice though, got a review of them coming up soon.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @Wis3guy Thank you! For me, I have had good moments with their Platinum Whey and Platinum Casein. I think this is more of a case of a "Hydroxycut" moment :)



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @Clipper83 I agree! Maybe the lawsuits are finally causing them to change their tactics.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @mhseaver670 The sad thing about the profile is the website does not contain any information about the ingredients and what they are supposed to do. Only the origin, which means nothing to me. Marketing and shiny labels is their profession IMO.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @Darkman Thank you!

      Keep telling people lies and they will eventually believe it is true with those "editorials".



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @Redweilerfan Thank you!

      Yes, I remember when Clear Muscle hit the market. The claims were out of this world. The Nitro Tech bars look good though. Looking forward to that review from you.



    • BroteinBoy
      Rep: +1,070
      March 2, 2018

      I think I fell asleep halfway through reading the name, I guess thats the problem when you make a million different versions of the same product



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 2, 2018

      @BroteinBoy No kidding! They just keep multiplying out of control. Soon they will need a fold out label just for the name.



    • bzyczek
      Rep: +1,738
      March 2, 2018

      Really nice review ... took the time to do your research ... no wonder you're the member of the month ;)



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      @bzyczek Thank you!

      I actually wanted to do more research but could never get the referenced study to open up. Makes me think they took it down because it was bogus.



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 3, 2018

      I voted thumbs down because:

      1. This is the main reason: Your ratings of 1 are not based on SR's Rating Guide. For example, EFFECTIVENESS related: A "4" in SR's Rating Guide means: "Didn't do anything" which is more accurate than a "1" because a "2" means: "Might have actually hindered my performance" and that didn't happen to you and even if it happened, it's a 2, not a 1. Same thing can be said to "OVERALL". A "4" means: "Bad product, will never take again nor recommend." And a "2" means: "Terrible. Outrageous label claims, better off with nothing." How is this product worse than what a "4" means and even more, how is this product even worse than what a "2" means!? It makes no sense to me. And VALUE related, first of all how is this product worse than what the "2" means in SR's Rating Guide: "Complete waste of money."?? Another thing that makes no sense to me. I look at prices of supplements almost daily, I remember when this product came out. When it came out, it was on BOGO for a lot of time (talking about months). Then they removed the BOGO for some weeks and it's back on BOGO again. So it has been on BOGO during most of the product's existence. So each bottle is $12.50, for 50 servings and $25 for 100 servings or 50 servings (max dose). That deserves a Value of 1? Is this some kind of joke? Well, you can't be playing with a company's prestige like that. Your ratings are extremely unfair and disproportionate, no wonder MuscleTech doesn't want to come here, I wouldn't either.

      2. Most of your review is based on something false or something that is your own fault. Not being able to open the study they constantly talk about is not their fault, it's your fault. It took me 5 to Google it and open it and yes, from MuscleTech's website. Just took a screenshot if you don't believe me. So just this simple fact brings most of your review down. I also opened it with my Tablet and my other phone. I'm using a laptop right now. You said you weren't sure if it was your computer or the link itself yet you make a review destroying a product based on something you're not sure about... sounds legit. /sarcasm.

      3. You criticize them because they give suggestions of avoid snacking and to drink 10 glasses of water. Plenty of supplements in a lot of categories add similar information, like: "this works in conjunction with a training regime and diet", something like that. "Eat less, drink more water and exercise" can be unnecessary for you but I think it was a good idea for them to add that information. It may seem logical to assume that you have to eat less, drink more water and exercise but it's also logical smoking kills you and generates hundreds of diseases yet people still do it. And not all consumers are "fitness" experts. Most people consuming supplements are "gym bros". I don't see anything wrong in MuscleTech or any other brand giving a suggestion like that.

      4. You didn't mention your initial and final weight, you didn't mention if your lifestyle's focus is on weight/fat loss, you didn't mention if your training's focus is also weight/fat loss. Nothing.

      5. You may think: "Well MarsheS 22 people found this helpful and only you found this unhelpful". You're new here so I'll tell you this and remember it: Most people here have an irrational hate for MuscleTech so anything wrong said about MuscleTech will be seen as positive. I'm sure most people hate them because of their Marketing but you have to learn how to separate between Marketing and the product itself. Most people here and outside SR don't know how to buy MuscleTech products. A "normal" person that wants to buy MuscleTech products, will just go to a store physically or online and try to buy it regularly. For example, let's say that person wants to buy MuscleTech Amino Build Next Gen. They will go and pay $24.99 or $29.99. Of course I wouldn't pay that price for that product but what if I tell you that Amino Build Next Gen is ALWAYS on a BOGO offer somewhere? Right now it's on BOGO at A1Supplements. It's on $14.99 at M&S. What's my point? MuscleTech products ALWAYS have a very good promo somewhere. Right now, they have BOGO and B2GO offers on Proteins, Preworkouts, Aminoacids, Glutamine, Creatine, Test Boosters, Multivitamins and any other category related to supplements. I can private message them to you to prove my words. But people here and outside SR don't know about that or they simply don't want to know about that (irrational hate). So based on what I said here, from those 22, a very tiny amount actually read your review and analyzed it. How am I so sure? None of them went to try and open the link and also none of them went to SR's Rating Guide and compare your numbers with SR's Rating Guide. I won't blame them for the Value analysis I made, like I said, I look at prices almost daily so it's obvious I'll know more about that than them although I've said this several times already, they should know better.

      If you ask for my personal opinion on MuscleTech's marketing, it's this: They exagerate a lot, it's also annoying they have more than 10 Hydroxycut's, it's annoying they constantly discontinue and release new products, it's annoying some of their products of different series are very similar to each other... but at the end of the day, if they keep doing it, then it means it works for them and if I can get a benefit from it, based on the BOGO offers, then I don't care about their Marketing. If people buy their products based on their Marketing, it's not MuscleTech's fault, it's the person's fault and if the person didn't make a research on prices, it's also the person's fault. In this era of technology, ignorance of information is simply ridiculous!



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 3, 2018

      And I forgot #6: You didn't make a research of the ingredients by yourself. Even without the link of the study, you could have just made a research of the ingredients by yourself.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      Thank you for the comments @MarsheS. In regards to the rating section, based on the SR guide, no product could ever be rated a 10 in effectiveness since that equals a Mr Olympia win and there is not likely any person on this site that could win the Olympia. Also like a 10 rating in value means a person would spend their money on nothing else. What about water, food, rent, electricity etc. I'm sure if it came down to only having a limited amount of money, a person would spend their money on something else besides a product given a 10 value rating. I have been questioned both for following the SR guide statements and for using it as a regular 1-10 scale.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      I was able to open the study on a different computer and have edited my review to remove those parts that I referenced in not being able to access it.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      In regards to the value section, I understand that Muscletech's products are almost always on sale somewhere, which brings up other concerns about the company inflating retail prices just to put them on sale and claim X % off or B1G1. These actions have been a problem and have led to lawsuits in the retail industry as well. In the end, I gave it a low value rating because it was useless to me and would have been a complete waste of money if I had paid for it. The 0 rating references suing for a refund, which is what has happened to Muscletech with their Hydroxycut products. Even with this product being free, it had no value to me and I can't sue them because I didn't pay anything for it.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      In regards to the marketing section, we seem to agree there but I believe they are targeting the uninformed consumer by always changing the products and their names thus giving the consumer the idea that if one of our products didn't work, we have plenty more for you to try (even though they are not all that different). It seems Muscletech is the company that is always getting sued for false claims while other industry giants do not. Just my observation.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 3, 2018

      In regards to researching the ingredients without access to the study, I was referencing that not even the product web page clearly states the research on the other ingredients besides the first one included in the study, just their origin. If Muscletech wants to be a one stop shop for a person's supplement needs, some more information about the ingredients needs to be included on the product page IMO



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 4, 2018

      I never mentioned the rating of 10, I talked about 4 and 2, why did you completely changed the topic and went to talk about 10? And I see you're confused about the rating of 10 and the Mr. Olympia thing. The Mr. Olympia thing is a joke, it's not supposed to be literal ffs, I think that's very clear. Now don't talk about the 10 and answer my original paragraph (#1).

      2. All the ingredients found in this product can be found if you Google them. You don't need MuscleTech to tell you about them. Sure, if they don't, they must receive less points but a 1? lol.

      3. You said you gave a 1 on Value because it was useless (never gave any info about what I said, initial weight, final weight, training regime, lifestyle regime, etc) but ok, you gave it a 1 because it was useless and a complete waste of money. SR's Rating Guide says a "2" means: "Complete waste of money." So why is your Value a 1 and not a 2, if the 2 of SR completely describes what you think!?

      4. MuscleTech doesn't inflate their prices, First of all, they can put the prices they want, free market, remember that? Ok. Second of all, the only prices that MuscleTech inflates is the one from the Black Onyx series. The red one (SX-7) was also inflated but they are getting discontinued. All the other products in their other series have a fair market price and with promos, they have a great price. That can easily be proven by me, just tell me if you really want me to prove it.

      Like I said, this review is flawed from the beginning until the end, and must be removed from this website, if SR wants to keep their high credibility. Giving a product ratings that are not according to SR's Rating Guide, ratings that are completely disproportional because you have an irrational hate to the company (lawsuits? Which companies don't get sued worldwide?), the fact that you didn't follow any specific training and lifestyle regime focused on weight/fat loss because you never mentioned it (mentioning it now is useless because if you would have followed it, then you would have said it), the fact that you didn't do a research of the ingredients outside MuscleTech's website (the irony is that some members here are happy about your lack of research lol), the fact that your Value analysis is completely flawed based on ridiculous and ignorant claims of price inflation and the other things I explained in my first comment... for all those reasons, this review needs to be removed. It doesn't affect you individually, it affects the website.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 5, 2018

      @MarsheS I updated the ratings following exactly what the sliding scale states. I do not have an irrational hate for Muscletech. I have used their protein products before and had good results. The lawsuits have been specifically for the Hydroxycut line of products, not Muscletech as a whole. I'm sorry you feel one review affects the credibility of the entire SR.com site.



    • Brotein
      Rep: +1,467
      March 5, 2018

      Just know that wherever you are, whoever you may be...Marshes is always watching and ready to get into a pissing match with his insufferable sense of superiority



    • Brotein
      Rep: +1,467
      March 5, 2018

      And before you start typing a long winded response that almost no one will read completely, I'll preface my comment by saying you're obviously entitled to an opinion. It's also my opinion that your opinion could be written with more professionalism and less snarkiness, considering you're so concerned with SR's credibility and reputation.

      Constructive criticism is cool and should always be welcomed. Being a dickhead and talking down to someone isn't.



    • mhseaver670
      Rep: +6,692
      March 5, 2018

      I have to agree with brotien here. I'm sure this may spark marshS to go and break all my reviews down to a cellular level, but you do you bro.

      MarshS = mother goose.



    • mjtuf1
      Rep: +482
      March 5, 2018

      When I saw only 1 thumbs down, I said I bet it's Marshes..

      @Marshes why are you always quick to defend Muscletech products? You know they were involved in a class action lawsuit for Amino Spiking and not saying they are a totally bad company but they are more concerned with advertising than quality.

      I thought the review here was good, and on point.. It's a bad product, the OP didn't like it, what more do you want? Do you want the guy to write a book on the product?

      Get off your damn high horse.



    • mjtuf1
      Rep: +482
      March 5, 2018

      Also, @dmf8625 - the rating system is just guidelines on what is a good way to rate a product here according to SR's standards, but at the end, you're the one who used the product and is rating it. For this guy MarsheS to come on here and say "well a 4 means this, but a 2 means that so how can you give it a 2 when you should of given it a 4" is just stupid.

      Value can be rated based on how the reviewer sees it. I state in my reviews that I rate the value of products I received for free based on how much it sells for and how effective it was to me.. So I can be given a product from the trooper program and pay nothing for it but give it a bad value rating due to the fact that it normally sells for $XX price and I don't feel it's worth that money.. I'm sure people would rather see that kind of value rating than me giving it a better value rating because I didn't pay for it. I might give 1 product that sells for $30 a bad value rating, then another product that sells for $40 a good value rating because in my opinion as the reviewer the more expensive product was better, and worth the money and a better value.

      Also, who the hell is anyone to say you can't give a product a 2 "because SR states a 2 = hinder your performance so you can only give it a 2 if you go backwards in the gym".. well maybe in my opinion, making no progress at all, while using an ineffective product to me is hindering my performance because maybe I could of done better with something else.

      Basically, what I'm saying is, do you, and do the ratings the way YOU FEEL the product deserved it.. yes use the SR guidelines to help, but in the end of the rating it doesn't have to be an exact macth to that.. if you feel the product is a 2, then give it a 2! Don't let this guy come on here and post a whole book of nonsense on hw you have to rate a product.



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 6, 2018

      @dmf8625 This new edited version is way better than the original version. See? I had to raise my voice to see some quality. It was mediocre to say that because you couldn't open their study (because of your fault, not the company), then you wouldn't research the ingredients on your own to see what's up with them. Now I also see information about your situation before taking the product and during the consumption of the product, that's also positive. Why did I have to raise my voice to get those details? Those are normal details expected in reviews of weight/fat loss products.

      So now we know you actually lost weight. Not the weight you were expecting but that happens a lot, even more if you took this close to holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year, etc. So based on these words: "For the duration of the bottle, I was able to lose the one to two pounds per week that I was aiming for(...)", why is Effectiveness a 4 which means "Didn't do anything" if you're saying it actually did something but that you expected more... Your words make me think this is closer to a 6 in Effectiveness, which means: "Seemed like it was working, but not much of a boost." Btw, I'm not inventing those meanings, they are already established. I'm not saying you have to put a 6 but maybe something close to 6, like 5.5 maybe? Because 4 means it didn't work and you said it worked but not so much. Aren't those words closer to "it worked but not much of a boost"? For me, yes, how about you?

      Another thing, I saw you didn't talk about the first ingredient. I'll give you this tip: Look for it as "chlorogenic acid" because it's the main active ingredient that is supposed to give the most benefits in this supplement. Chlorogenic Acid is very popular. Even though I still disagree with certain things of your review (the things I talked in THIS new post), like I said, this review is way much better than the first one. I hope you understand that my comments are not to offend you (like others are trying to make you think) but to improve this review and you already improved it. After you see your mistake with Effectiveness, then I think you will also see your mistake with Value.

      Hey dmf8625, 1 last thing, as for "mjtuf1" comments, to help you understand more where his hatred towards me comes from, he's mad at me because I questioned one of his protein reviews because he didn't mention and even less talked about the protein sources of the supplement. Can you imagine making a Protein review and not even mentioning the protein sources? He also received a lot of Thumbs Up like you but please tell me honestly, who is helping you more? Those hypocrite thumbs up of people who mostly didn't read your review (just like they didn't read his review) or you prefer my criticism to improve your review?

      @Brotein Hahahaahha! Words don't have emotions so the way you're reading my long paragraphs (if you even read them) might not be the way I'm expressing my words... As for the sense of superiority, well I said that when it comes to Prices, I can feel superior to most of you because I deal with them everyday. I look at prices on pages like: BB, M&S, A1S, Suppz, etc so I have a better idea of prices and deals from the brands than most of you who are normal consumers. Is that being a dickhead? No it's not. As for feeling superior because I'm questioning reviews of users, it's not about feeling superior, it's about expecting a MINIMUM of details. If you're (random person) going to make a Protein review, I expect you (random person) to tell me which are the protein sources ffs! I can't only tell you (random person): "This has 20g of Protein". You (random person) think I should approve that like the rest of you (random person) guys do? Well no, I can't. That's not feeling superior, that's expecting the MINIMUM. What type of protein ffs!? Whey? Soy? Egg? Casein? Are they Concentrate, Isolate, Hydrolyzed, Micellar? How were they processed (if available)? Ion exchange, Micro-filtration, Ultra-Filtration? The same goes for Preworkouts. If I read a review of a Preworkout and I see the person only talked about Energy, I'm going to ask the person what's up with Focus, Strength, Endurance?? If I read a Detox/Cleanse review, I expect to know how many times the person went to the bathroom! The same for any other category, the author has to provide atleast a MINIMUM of details that must be expected from a DECENT and ACCEPTABLE review. Get out from your Opinion Cloud thing, the details EXPECTED from a review is not about opinion. The "random person" emphasis is because you thought I was talking about you in a post made by me in a topic (the amino topic in the SR TROOP forum section) but I wasn't talking about YOU, lol.

      @mhseaver lol! Naaah, I'm not going to do that. I prefer to be mother goose than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHviwdECNjU Blame Clipper, he gave away one of your forms, not me ;)



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 6, 2018

      The weight loss occurred because of being in a calorie deficit and training. The one to two pounds lost per week is what I expected because that is what I have experienced in the past with this process. I got the results that I would have expected without using this supplement. Because I was using this product and nothing changed beyond what I expected from purely being in a calorie deficit and training, this product made no difference (ie: Didn't do anything) IMO.



    • dmf8625
      Rep: +2,020
      March 6, 2018

      Final thoughts: If you believe strongly in this product and feel I gave it an unfair review; please feel free to purchase this supplement, run it for yourself and post a review for the community to enjoy. It is still on sale at BB.com FYI. Good night



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 6, 2018

      Ok fair enough.

      Yea I will try it once I stop bulking. I'm in bulking phase so it would make no sense for me to try it now.



    • Clipper83
      Rep: +4,424
      March 6, 2018

      Or... take the other Hydroxycut



    • mjtuf1
      Rep: +482
      March 6, 2018

      @MarsheS - I read the entire review prior to my comments, and it looked very good to me, so unless it was edited before my reading of it then I don't know but what I saw was a good review with 1 person complaining as usual.

      Your comments on my protein review were ignorant, and you were basically getting on me for not giving a science lesson on the product, and you were defending muscletech like you work for them.

      I don't know why you choose to believe everything on the label, and fail to realize companies lie.

      Hopefully you stop trolling people's reviews after this and come back down.



    • aleexz
      Rep: +371
      March 6, 2018

      this is the thread that keeps on giving, 35 messages deep already



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 6, 2018

      Accusations =/= Proof.

      @Clipper83 Which Hydroxycut? Aren't they all for weight/fat loss or you were talking to dmf8625?



    • Clipper83
      Rep: +4,424
      March 6, 2018

      The ones I threw up on the TROOPer program. Hardcore Elite Pro Series.

      Anyone really lol.



    • mjtuf1
      Rep: +482
      March 7, 2018

      In the Documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" (old documentary I know) there is a scene where a muscletech model is posing for a hydroxycut ad, and he admits and says something along the lines of "Of course I didn't get like this by only taking hydroxycut.. I simply used the product along with doing many other things.. if people choose to believe this product will make them look like this that's their fault".

      The problem is people see the label and advertising and fall for the hype and expect the supplement to make a HUGE difference... hydroxycut might make an ounce of a difference if you're doing everything else right that works for your body, and it might not work at all... is it worth the big price tag that is required to pay for all the fancy advertising?



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 7, 2018

      None of MuscleTech models or models of any other brand look big, lean and ripped because they take the brand's supplements. You really thought they look like that because they take supplements?? The bodybuilding industry is full of professionals that are big, lean and ripped because they took anabolic steroids, prohormones, SARMS, etc. They are not like that because of supplements. Of course, they now make YouTube videos, go to contests, make Instagram videos, are professional certified trainers, etc, and when you go talk to them, they come with a 1 hour speech of taking supplements and eating a good diet...

      And I'm not talking about a minority. Just look at Phil Heath. You think he looks like that because he takes supplements of Ultimate Nutrition (the brand he represents)?? Hell no. You think Jay Cutler when he was at a top level was big, lean and ripped because of taking the supplements of his brand or any other brand?? You think Ronnie Coleman was big, lean and ripped and could lift those heavy weights he did because of taking supplements?? Hell no.

      Of course all of them and all the bodybuilding industry takes supplements. But they don't look big, lean and ripped because of them. A lot of them also follow strict diets but they don't look big, lean and ripped because of that. Supplements and diet help them... but their big results come from hormones, not from Creatine, BCAAs, etc, lol.

      So what the MuscleTech model said was the complete truth. You should be thankful to him that he was honest instead of trying to convince you or others that you can look like him because of supplements.



    • mjtuf1
      Rep: +482
      March 7, 2018

      @MarsheS - Stop defending muscletech, and once again stop getting it twisted.. maybe stop working out at home so much, and go out, join a gym, interact with other people so you develop some social norms.

      I never said these models get big from using the stuff... I know the deal, but to an ignorant inexperienced person who is new to the gym, who sees a hydroxycut ad with a lean muscular guy promoting the product, that person will likely buy the product and expect big results. The model made the admission while talking on the side to the documentary reporter.

      Some products I've seen make ridiculous claims.. muscletech creatine mono I bought for dirt cheap claims "subjects gained 6 pounds of muscle in 10 weeks"... I've been around the block a few times, so I'm not expecting anything close to that from the product.. I bought it cause it was dirt cheap, and I'm just using it to maybe, MAYBE help give me that small extra boost to add 5 pounds to a 300's range bench press, or maybe squeeze out an extra rep in the 300s.. but to the kid who sees the muscular guy in the ads and sees "6 pounds muscle in 10 weeks" he might buy the product, and buy it when it's not part of a promotion and costs much more because he believe this crap.

      Take your muscletech shirt off and stop defending these clowns.



    • MarsheS
      Rep: +1,532
      March 7, 2018

      I'm not defending MuscleTech only, I'm defending ALL brands. All brands use models that didn't get big, lean and ripped using their supplements yet they hire them to promote their supplements. That will make consumers think they can get as big as them if they consume the brand. Isn't that lying? Of course yes, just like you attack MuscleTech, attack all the other brands too.

      At the end of the day, it's marketing. Marketing is about selling things to people and make them think they really need it and probably they don't need it. If they convince you to think you need "X" product, then be responsible for your decisions, don't blame a company. It's 2018, not 1900. We have plenty of information available, we have the necessary tools to make smarter decisions that can go beyond Marketing.

      About the claims made by MuscleTech in some of their products, apart from what I said above, I would also add that I don't think the % they talk about are false. It's easy to increase strength and gain more muscle when the person is beginning this weight lifting adventure. So when you see things like "Increase strength 40%, 50%", or gain "X amount of muscle in 10 weeks", it's probably true, but only for the person beginning or that doesn't have too much experience on lifting weights. As the years pass and the weights start to increase, then it becomes harder to gain muscle (sounds contradictory but it's not) and harder to gain strength and progress is made slower. So those % might not apply to you nor me. But the potential to increase strength from Creatine or Leucine is still available for us, which is what we should care about. Using percentages is also a Marketing strategy. If I usually do 1 rep and I took "X" product and did 2 reps, it's more attractive to say my strength increased 100% instead of just saying I went from 1 rep to 2 reps lol. People would inmediately buy the product because they will think their strength will increase 100%. But the truth is I only did 1 more rep than what I usually do. It doesn't mean the 100% is a lie, it's just another way of saying it.

      That's how the World runs...



    • mhseaver670
      Rep: +6,692
      March 7, 2018

      Geez Oh mighty marshS let it go.



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