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Bro's: Need help finding a PH that wont attack my hair line

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CFBFanatic
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Bro's: Need help finding a PH that wont attack my hair line « : October 01, 2015, 08:25:08 PM »
Ive ran Ostarine with good results in the strength department, but not in the size department. I gained about 20-25lb increase on incline dumbell bench press in about 8 weeks only working out 4 days per week bc of my work schedule. I didnt really gain any size though, which is what Im looking for. I would run the Ostarine cycle again as it worked with 0 side effects (that I noticed, didnt have blood work done, but I took a test booster starting 4 weeks into the cycle that lasted until 2 weeks after).

Anyways, in order to gain some size Im looking at doing somethng else, preferably something mild that I can gain 8-10 pounds of good mass in an 8-10 week cycle. The problem is, most of the PH's I look at transform into DHT in the bloodstream. This is bad because I am GOING BALD. Im screwed on that part, its in my genes and there's no getting rid of it. Im getting married next summer though and prefer not to shave my head or anything until after the wedding. Because of this, I need a PH that doesnt convert to DHT which will make my balding much worse.

From the research Ive done, I cant really find anything that would fit the bill on what Im wanting to do that doesnt convert to DHT, other than the SARM. Anyone know of anything else?? Hate to ask but I have done my research and have come up empty. Help a bro out if you can! Thanks!

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AS79
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« Reply #1: October 02, 2015, 05:18:03 AM »
Most PHs are banned in the US. 
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ForeverSmall
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« Reply #2: October 02, 2015, 06:25:26 AM »
Nioxin may be something to look in to for that hair line..


krystian
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« Reply #3: October 02, 2015, 08:55:27 AM »
Not my area of expertise but, I've read that LGD is a good SARM for adding mass. I've also read that it's sometimes stacked with Ostarine, so why not stack both and just up your calories/protein?

Also, about your hair loss - my hair is thinning (I'm 43) - and I noticed in a few areas the hair is a less dense than in other areas. So, I recently started using Pura D'or Gold Label Shampoo and Blue Label Conditioner and I have noticed my hair looks better, seems to be a little thicker and the density is marginally better. Only time will tell if it does anything more but, I thought I'd mention it.

Also, my hair guy mentioned the Nioxin also; so that seems to be an option, and then there's minoxidil and finasteride. So, you have options.


UprightRows
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« Reply #4: October 02, 2015, 09:34:10 AM »
LGD is certainly an option and would be fine even solo, and if you are eating enough you can easily gain 8lbs in 8wks. But is more supressive than ostarine, so you will get sides like lethargy and you will need full a PCT with a SERM. Your other option is high dose 1-andro/1-DHEA, but that is hit or miss for some people regarding hairloss, and again lethargy might be an issue, but you will should be able to hit your goals for mass gain if you give it 8 wks.

Another option is MK-677, which is an oral gherlin mimetic that basically increases your GH output and also raises your IGF-1 levels over time. It's not really a prohomorone (or a SARM as some erroneously classify it), but it will help out with lean mass gains, and you will be hungry all the time when on it. You could probably gain 8-10 lbs on it in 8 weeks, I gained 5lbs of water and some glycogen on it almost immediately, stuff will make you hold a bit of water in your muscles. It also has no negative effect on hair line and several users (myself included) report improved hair and skin quality. Start at 10mg for a week and up it to 20mgs, it is non-supressive and can be run indefinitely, only down side is its a little expensive.

One thing I can tell you not to do is run Stano for lethargy on cycle, I have zero tendency for MPB in my genetics and that stuff thinned me out while I was on it, luckily it came back, but I would def avoid it if you are already starting to bald

   


AstromicJosh
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« Reply #5: October 02, 2015, 05:50:22 PM »
You could always look into some Epistane at 40mg/day or stack MK677 for IGF-1/GH release, LGD and RAD-140 for max anabolism and keeping fat gains down.

Could dose as follows for potency:

Weeks 1-12:
MK677-25mg/day
LGD-4033- 10mg/day
RAD-140- 10mg/day

None of these convert to DHT and are pretty potent compounds that will get you the gains you are looking for along with great recovery.
CEO, Astromic Nutrition- Sports Nutrition Evolution

Stats:

Bench- 185
Deadlift- 275
Squat- 320
Leg Press- 365
Rows- 135
Curls- 105


UprightRows
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« Reply #6: October 03, 2015, 08:03:23 AM »
I don't know about running RAD for 12 wks, even though it is a SARM it's pretty harsh and there is some evidence to suggest renal/hepatotoxicity. There really isn't much research on RAD and while it does seem to be very anabolic, human trials are sorely lacking and if one were to use it I wouldn't go more than 4 maybe 6 weeks on it, it simply doesn't have the track record of ostarine and to a lesser degree LGD. Also if you are only trying to gain 8-10lbs in around 8wks, the recommendations fo MK677 and LGD should be more than enough as long as you are eating properly.

While it is an effective pro-hormone, some people report shedding on Epistane, I have used it once and had no issues but I am not genetically predisposed to MBP. It would help you reach your goals in a shorter time frame (you could probably gain >10lbs in six wks if your diet is dialed in)  but it is ultimately probably not worth the hassle of a full PCT with SERMs, possible gyno from estrogen rebound and finding it because it is technically illegal in the US now. I would stick with just MK677 20-25mg ED, eat big and train hard and 10 lbs shouldn't be a problem in 8wks


AstromicJosh
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« Reply #7: October 03, 2015, 10:21:06 AM »
Between MK and LGD, it would more than likely be enough and it usually takes 8-12 weeks for an MK/LGD cycle since LGD kicks in the fastest of the two (MK taking 7-14 days to kick in and elevate IGF-1 50% http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015485) RAD could be used for less time as a kick-start and discontinued, indeed, though it's use would solidify gains and retention in combo with the MK-677.

Some shedding should be expected with any run, especially if prone to MPB... Finasteride/minoxidil can aid in reducing or eradicating any loss completely, however. MK-677 alone wont put on 8-10lbs on 6-8 week cycle, that takes 12 months or longer of  consistent usage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

About remal issues and PCT... Cycle support/PCT is just as important with SARMS as it is PHs and AAS as they can cause suppression like anything else and lower enzymes, so HCGenerate should be used after a SARM cycle for 3-4 weeks. Gyno is also possible with SARMS, never hurts to use Adex on any cycle.
CEO, Astromic Nutrition- Sports Nutrition Evolution

Stats:

Bench- 185
Deadlift- 275
Squat- 320
Leg Press- 365
Rows- 135
Curls- 105


AS79
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« Reply #8: October 03, 2015, 01:03:24 PM »
Between MK and LGD, it would more than likely be enough and it usually takes 8-12 weeks for an MK/LGD cycle since LGD kicks in the fastest of the two (MK taking 7-14 days to kick in and elevate IGF-1 50% http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015485) RAD could be used for less time as a kick-start and discontinued, indeed, though it's use would solidify gains and retention in combo with the MK-677.

Some shedding should be expected with any run, especially if prone to MPB... Finasteride/minoxidil can aid in reducing or eradicating any loss completely, however. MK-677 alone wont put on 8-10lbs on 6-8 week cycle, that takes 12 months or longer of  consistent usage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

About remal issues and PCT... Cycle support/PCT is just as important with SARMS as it is PHs and AAS as they can cause suppression like anything else and lower enzymes, so HCGenerate should be used after a SARM cycle for 3-4 weeks. Gyno is also possible with SARMS, never hurts to use Adex on any cycle.
No offense, but I disagree with so much of this. HCGenerate is meant to be used on cycle to minimize side effects from suppression. Also, for the most part, an AI should only be used on cycle if the compound can convert to estrogen.  Using an AI on cycle can increase your chances of rebound gyno.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 02:16:03 PM by AS79 »
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AstromicJosh
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« Reply #9: October 03, 2015, 09:01:10 PM »
No offense, but I disagree with so much of this. HCGenerate is meant to be used on cycle to minimize side effects from suppression. Also, for the most part, an AI should only be used on cycle if the compound can convert to estrogen.  Using an AI on cycle can increase your chances of rebound gyno.

HCGenerate is meant to be used both on and post due to restoring HPTA function to homeostasis from moderate suppression, which is in fact caused by SARMS. HCGenerate takes care of that problem post SARM run and if suppression is high enough (which it will be at 10mg of LGD), may as well Nolva or Clomid PCT.

MK-677 is a secretagogue, not a SARM and again, the science above shows you that like exogenous GH, it takes plenty of time to see large gains from it... Most benefits are improved REM and IGF-1 increase for nitrogen retention/protein synthesis and around ~12 pulses over the course of 24 hours.

LGD/Osta in particular suppress T/SHBG as well as causing testicular shrinkage at slightly higher doses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4111291/

"There was a dose-dependent suppression of total testosterone and sex hormone–binding globulin levels from baseline to day 21 (Figure 2). Free testosterone suppression was noted at the 1.0-mg dose only. (So what do you think will happen at 5-10mg?)

The suppression of total testosterone was greater than that of free testosterone. Serum luteinizing hormone levels did not show any meaningful changes from baseline, whereas the follicle-stimulating hormone levels were suppressed only in the 1.0-mg dose group. Upon discontinuation of LGD-4033, the hormone levels returned to baseline by day 56."

Disagree all you wish, this is simple endocrinology.

OP, the choice is yours, but you now have the facts rather than the hype. :)
CEO, Astromic Nutrition- Sports Nutrition Evolution

Stats:

Bench- 185
Deadlift- 275
Squat- 320
Leg Press- 365
Rows- 135
Curls- 105


UprightRows
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« Reply #10: October 04, 2015, 07:59:53 AM »
In my experience, I wouldn't waste my time with HCGenerate, it is overpriced and just fadogia if I remember correctly. If you go that route, you are much better off getting real HCG for "research purposes" ;), it is inexpensive and easy to acquire and is certainly more efficacious than some herbal supplement that costs >70$ and supposedly works by indirectly increasing HCG and LH levels (you can just use the real thing).

Or you can avoid that whole dilemma by just taking MK677 solo and sidestep the whole suppression issue all together. I really think it is feasible to gain 8lbs in 8wks using only MK677, but its your call.


CFBFanatic
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« Reply #11: October 05, 2015, 06:31:58 AM »
In my experience, I wouldn't waste my time with HCGenerate, it is overpriced and just fadogia if I remember correctly. If you go that route, you are much better off getting real HCG for "research purposes" ;), it is inexpensive and easy to acquire and is certainly more efficacious than some herbal supplement that costs >70$ and supposedly works by indirectly increasing HCG and LH levels (you can just use the real thing).

Or you can avoid that whole dilemma by just taking MK677 solo and sidestep the whole suppression issue all together. I really think it is feasible to gain 8lbs in 8wks using only MK677, but its your call.

The problem now is where to find it. The last company I used apparently no longer sells it as I just checked their website. I like the oral liquid over the capsules but Ill take anything right now


UprightRows
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« Reply #12: October 05, 2015, 08:17:39 AM »
Just curious, are you talking about OL?


CFBFanatic
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« Reply #13: October 06, 2015, 11:32:19 AM »
a google of "gtg SARM" would let you know where I was at  8)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 12:48:59 PM by CFBFanatic »


lava135
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« Reply #14: October 07, 2015, 08:19:59 AM »
^ Probably shouldn't be posting sources in the open forums - not positive but I think that includes peptide companies.
"Luck is the last dying chance of those that wish to believe that winning can happen by accident.  Sweat, on the other hand, are for those who know it's a choice."  Author Unknown

"Before you try variety, own simplicity." -- Eric Cressey

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