I got a bottle of this for free when pumpkin came out muscleandstrength had a offer going so I ended up buying it. I stacked both supplements took each on 30-40 mins before going to the gym 10mins separation .swallowing four pills isn't my favorite thing to do .I notice instant results in my forearms and chest I seemed more vascular. Pump fixhas the basic ingredients as jack3d so nothing new. I ran hypertrop by itself with a 15min cardio session and it controlled my appetite afterwards and gave me a small boost